I was in a cult in my twenties. It was very disconcerting to break free. For one thing I lost almost all my friends. Certainly I lost my larger social circle. Then dealing with the ‘I am a smart guy. How was I so easily duped?’ Also difficult. It led me to spend some years teaching myself to think. Which paid off wonderfully. One point, when I was fully indoctrinated I wasn’t defensive at all when challenged. I was way too smug for that. The ‘ignorant’ ones weren’t ready.
You are such a wise and brave soul, Alicen, and the liberation from labels/ideology/beliefs you described in this piece is *exactly* what I underwent several years ago and wrote about in my two-year Stackiversary piece:
“Shedding my own labels peeled away the cognitive biases that had inhibited my ability to appreciate the perspectives of those outside my in-group, and it helped me see through the lies told to keep my in-group enslaved to an ideology that served the rulers rather than the people.” (https://margaretannaalice.substack.com/p/my-two-year-stackiversary-lattice)
I've often told people to imagine the 60 year old person who's believed in Jesus their whole lives, and tithed to their church for the last 40 years...imagine telling them that scholars have proven that Jesus never existed. The wall of cognitive dissonance would go up; so hard and fast that it might knock you down in its movement. But you've taken this to a point I haven't yet given thought; the people making money from their blogs and even worse, the transgenders that have mutilated themselves. While I've talked a bit about these people from varying perspectives; just not from the one you've offered here. Thanks, I appreciate your insights.
Seems to me the very first indoctrination most of us get yanked into is the materialist perspective on our existence. Most of us cannot tell the difference between “I’m human” and “I exist in a material dimension” - among others! This narrow view of the horizontal plane as the only aspect of human existence worthy of our time and attention seems to me the primary conditioning from which we can then continue the narrowing, into any and all reductionistic, static self-labels. Yes to this text and invitation, Alicen, as a clear-headed call to question any and all identities we might trap ourselves into and finally, truly liberate ourselves from conditioning, whether it came from our then-needed care-takers or from ourselves in our navigation of the deeply fragmented societies we are in (and unwittingly contribute to).
Thanks for this Alicen. It resonated with me. I have never felt comfortable with labels and always avoided naming myself anything. Occasionally I even feel uncomfortable using my given name but that may be for different reasons.
Thanks for this Alicen. It resonated with me. I have never felt comfortable with labels and always avoided naming myself anything. Occasionally I even feel uncomfortable using my given name but that may be for different reasons.
Hi Alicen, great insight, I'll have to pay this article the attention it's due when I get a break, but I wanted to say about your point that cults are not microcosms of culture -- that's a difficult distinction to defend. I spent 15 years in a cult ('78 - '93) and have studied cultism in general culture for the last 30 years now.
I wouldn't say that cults are a microcosm of culture, but rather that cults are micro-expressions of the cultures they occur in. Take your definition of a cult -- which I think is a good one -- and note that it's equally applicable as a basic definition of any governed nation or any major corporation or any "organized religion" or anything we'd legal as an institution. Power and authority work the same in all of them, and the evidence of their operation is clearly traced in the flows of information and communication within them and with outside entities.
In any kind of authoritarian paradigm, to organize means none other than to form a cult.
Pay attention to how information and communication operate in any organization at any scale: the forms and patterns of their flows, the structures in place to determine and manipulate those flows, the off-limits questions, the taboo subjects, the presence of an inner circle with an upper echelon comprised of very few, the secret knowledge and privileged information/communication available only once you've been sufficiently vetted for inclusion in the next, higher (never lower) level of access, etc.
Both cults as commonly understood and every organization that operates as a top-down, authoritarian operation share exactly the same basic characteristics/structure and employ exactly the same basic methods when it comes to information and communication sharing/flow.
We're resistant to recognizing and admitting this because it's tantamount to admitting that we're all cultists and the only way we know of structuring ourselves to work together is to form cults. But our belief that "this is the only way that works" and our denial and resulting ignorance of peer-based human interaction and interactional structures are themselves symptomatic of cultism.
Sartre said that once you name something, you kill it. i know that's a little over the top, but like you mentioned it's liberating AF to let go of the doctrinaire stuff.
but - if i can play devil's advocate here - aren't we at a point in world history where we have to have some guiding principle, even if that's simply choosing life? don't we owe it to our less aware brothers and sisters to wake them up if we can? with the WEF breathing down our necks, do we have the luxury of riding the fence? just throwing this out there...
Yes I absolutely agree that we need guiding principles, and that we can treat our knowledge as something we have a sacred responsibility to share! What I'm calling into question is the usefulness of identifying oneself as a member or representative of a particular group -- as if any one group has a monopoly on Truth. In fact, when we label ourselves, we often miss out on dimensions of Truth that people try to share with us, because we see them as "other" or, worse, as enemies.
Aug 30, 2023·edited Aug 30, 2023Liked by Alicen Grey
"I AM...unlimited and oriented towards personal growth and expansion, as the Creator would see fit!" Thanks for sharing your perspectives, Alicen. Lots to resonate with.
I’ve been blessed to know you long enough to have witnessed so much of this journey — and to have learned so much in the process. Thank you! 🙏 Now, I’m thrilled to see you reaching more and more people with this critical perspective. 💕
I was in a cult in my twenties. It was very disconcerting to break free. For one thing I lost almost all my friends. Certainly I lost my larger social circle. Then dealing with the ‘I am a smart guy. How was I so easily duped?’ Also difficult. It led me to spend some years teaching myself to think. Which paid off wonderfully. One point, when I was fully indoctrinated I wasn’t defensive at all when challenged. I was way too smug for that. The ‘ignorant’ ones weren’t ready.
I wrote this in my journal in July.
I am all that I was and that I was not.
I am all that I will and will not be.
I am my past, present and future.
I am the states that I flow through the thoughts and the flow between them, the emotions and their transitions, across all time.
I am fluid.
It is impossible to know an unchanging core of me. I am flow without limits. So there is no sense in saying I am this or that.
Beautiful, Jo. Beautiful and true 🩶
You are such a wise and brave soul, Alicen, and the liberation from labels/ideology/beliefs you described in this piece is *exactly* what I underwent several years ago and wrote about in my two-year Stackiversary piece:
“Shedding my own labels peeled away the cognitive biases that had inhibited my ability to appreciate the perspectives of those outside my in-group, and it helped me see through the lies told to keep my in-group enslaved to an ideology that served the rulers rather than the people.” (https://margaretannaalice.substack.com/p/my-two-year-stackiversary-lattice)
Yes, I love it! also, I was JUST thinking about you & how I've been meaning to just say hi soon when i have a moment. wavelength!
Aww, so sweet of you, Alicen, and I love that kind of synchronicity! 🤗💗🙌
I've often told people to imagine the 60 year old person who's believed in Jesus their whole lives, and tithed to their church for the last 40 years...imagine telling them that scholars have proven that Jesus never existed. The wall of cognitive dissonance would go up; so hard and fast that it might knock you down in its movement. But you've taken this to a point I haven't yet given thought; the people making money from their blogs and even worse, the transgenders that have mutilated themselves. While I've talked a bit about these people from varying perspectives; just not from the one you've offered here. Thanks, I appreciate your insights.
Seems to me the very first indoctrination most of us get yanked into is the materialist perspective on our existence. Most of us cannot tell the difference between “I’m human” and “I exist in a material dimension” - among others! This narrow view of the horizontal plane as the only aspect of human existence worthy of our time and attention seems to me the primary conditioning from which we can then continue the narrowing, into any and all reductionistic, static self-labels. Yes to this text and invitation, Alicen, as a clear-headed call to question any and all identities we might trap ourselves into and finally, truly liberate ourselves from conditioning, whether it came from our then-needed care-takers or from ourselves in our navigation of the deeply fragmented societies we are in (and unwittingly contribute to).
Thanks for this Alicen. It resonated with me. I have never felt comfortable with labels and always avoided naming myself anything. Occasionally I even feel uncomfortable using my given name but that may be for different reasons.
Thanks for this Alicen. It resonated with me. I have never felt comfortable with labels and always avoided naming myself anything. Occasionally I even feel uncomfortable using my given name but that may be for different reasons.
Hi Alicen, great insight, I'll have to pay this article the attention it's due when I get a break, but I wanted to say about your point that cults are not microcosms of culture -- that's a difficult distinction to defend. I spent 15 years in a cult ('78 - '93) and have studied cultism in general culture for the last 30 years now.
I wouldn't say that cults are a microcosm of culture, but rather that cults are micro-expressions of the cultures they occur in. Take your definition of a cult -- which I think is a good one -- and note that it's equally applicable as a basic definition of any governed nation or any major corporation or any "organized religion" or anything we'd legal as an institution. Power and authority work the same in all of them, and the evidence of their operation is clearly traced in the flows of information and communication within them and with outside entities.
In any kind of authoritarian paradigm, to organize means none other than to form a cult.
Pay attention to how information and communication operate in any organization at any scale: the forms and patterns of their flows, the structures in place to determine and manipulate those flows, the off-limits questions, the taboo subjects, the presence of an inner circle with an upper echelon comprised of very few, the secret knowledge and privileged information/communication available only once you've been sufficiently vetted for inclusion in the next, higher (never lower) level of access, etc.
Both cults as commonly understood and every organization that operates as a top-down, authoritarian operation share exactly the same basic characteristics/structure and employ exactly the same basic methods when it comes to information and communication sharing/flow.
We're resistant to recognizing and admitting this because it's tantamount to admitting that we're all cultists and the only way we know of structuring ourselves to work together is to form cults. But our belief that "this is the only way that works" and our denial and resulting ignorance of peer-based human interaction and interactional structures are themselves symptomatic of cultism.
Not all cults are bad ideologically when they cultivate a strong, courageous warrior spirit.
I belong to the cult of noticing things but there are so few of us no one really notices us much.
https://rumble.com/embed/v3ato7s/?pub=v9adp&start=12301
Sartre said that once you name something, you kill it. i know that's a little over the top, but like you mentioned it's liberating AF to let go of the doctrinaire stuff.
but - if i can play devil's advocate here - aren't we at a point in world history where we have to have some guiding principle, even if that's simply choosing life? don't we owe it to our less aware brothers and sisters to wake them up if we can? with the WEF breathing down our necks, do we have the luxury of riding the fence? just throwing this out there...
Yes I absolutely agree that we need guiding principles, and that we can treat our knowledge as something we have a sacred responsibility to share! What I'm calling into question is the usefulness of identifying oneself as a member or representative of a particular group -- as if any one group has a monopoly on Truth. In fact, when we label ourselves, we often miss out on dimensions of Truth that people try to share with us, because we see them as "other" or, worse, as enemies.
true that!
i'm an existentialist except when it limits my freedom ;)
"I AM...unlimited and oriented towards personal growth and expansion, as the Creator would see fit!" Thanks for sharing your perspectives, Alicen. Lots to resonate with.
YES YOU ARE! 🙌🏽
I’ve been blessed to know you long enough to have witnessed so much of this journey — and to have learned so much in the process. Thank you! 🙏 Now, I’m thrilled to see you reaching more and more people with this critical perspective. 💕